Oh, and there is one more thing I meant to address in relation to some of the questions I answered for vbennett. It's the issue of becoming your sponsor's competition once you've been training. I have some feelings on this that I thought would be interesting for some of you to chew on....

This is my post from another forum:

"...Several industries use similar pass-up systems, car dealerships, insurance companies, high-end furniture sales and real estate, just to name a few. My fiancee used to work in furniture sales, and he was paid a set rate plus commissions. He was required to meet a quota of $50,000 in a given month before he was eligible to receive any commissions for that month. So the company was rewarded that $50,000 despite the fact that he was the one doing all of the selling, explaining and so on. I also have close friends in the other industries I mentioned who have told us similar stories about their commission-based jobs. In short, EDC or any other company is not ripping its members off by using such a compensation plan. Those 2 sales are simply considered training sales. Not to mention, as a sponsor I have the choice of giving one or both of those to my members as "qualifiers." That means that I might only require them to pass up one sale, or none at all. It really depends on the individual and the situation.

As for new members being in competition with their sponsors once they qualify, this happens in nearly any business, not just EDC (also happens a lot in all of those industries I mentioned above). Yes, we are all eventually in competition with each other. That is the way business and entrepreneurship work. The thing is that a good sponsor will help to boost up their whole team, not just themselves. The way I view things, I'm not so much in competition with my team members as we are all in competition with other EDC sponsors and their teams. Occasionally when I do invest in a large advertising campaign, I will opt to distribute the prospects I get from that advertising evenly among all of my team members. This is because I'm just as excited to see them succeed as I am about my own success (it shows that the EDC program can work for others as well, not just a select few, and I like that). I'm also a firm believer that there is enough business out here for all of us. I can't possible take on 1000 new members at a time, not when you consider that each of those new members will need individual training, websites, etc. That would become as taxing as an actual job to me. For that reason, I have no problem sharing leads I get with my team members. In that way, we're not competing against each other but working together. We all have goals, and I think we'll reach them faster if we work together. The other end of this is that I am not a member of the highest Gold membership. Some may think that limits the amount of money I'm able to earn. This is the farthest thing from the truth, as I've been able to strike up partnerships with other EDC members who are at the Gold level. When I get a prospect that is interested in joining at that level (and I've gotten quite a few), I simply refer them to one of the other EDC members that I know well and who will be good sponsors for that prospect. In return for the referral, that other EDC member may see fit to share a bit of that sale, or provide some other useful service or tool. I have found that you're more apt to succeed in business when you can form mutually beneficial partnerships with your "competition." I would say that's about as much "synergy" as you can achieve in business, everyone working together but still achieving their own individual goals and earning the incomes they want to earn. It really all comes down to choosing a dedicated sponsor who won't view you as their "competition" in a few weeks time, but will view you instead as a partner and friend!..."

Again, a good sponsor will not view you as competition but a friend and partner they can work with to achieve all goals faster. Think about it (just a scenario), the more I help my team members, the more successful they'll be. And the more successful they are, the less I have to worry about when an interested prospect asks to speak to some of my team members as proof, or inquires as to whether my team members have made any sales. That means a better reputation for me as a sponsor, and potentially more business. I try to make all of my business relationships mutually beneficial. I'm not just a mentor, but a friend. I'm helping one team member master some training with his new dog. I'm helping another develop ideas for his own publishing business and his own restaurant. Just works out better that way. Then everyone is happy and no one feels neglected or ripped off.

-PA27

So what is the ratio of good sponsors to not-so-good sponsors in the program? PA27, have you seen not-so-good sponsors? What have their results been like in the EDC system?

I have seen many not-so-good sponsors. I'm not sure what an exact ratio would be, but I'm willing to bet you that there are (most unfortunately) more of the not-so-good sponsors than good ones.

Take my sponsor for example. The only help I got was through the payment process, and an email a few weeks later that was something like this: "Hey, got any sales to pass up to me yet?" I try not to be of a vengeful mind, but I have heard that my sponsor is not doing so well. I can also tell from my back office. My sponsor is a Gold member ($997 level), and it doesn't appear as if they've even made their first 2 sales. If I were to upgrade to that level, I'd become their sponsor's charge.

I have a feeling about this program, and that feeling is as follows: you get back what you put in, on all levels. If you screw folks over, your business is bound to suffer for it eventually. Maybe not right away, but it will happen. Likewise, if you do what's right, your chances of being successful are much greater.

I don't know how much I believe in the whole "law of attraction" concept, but it does seem to have basis, especially with things like this. When you start to believe in something, work toward it, and take steps to make yourself the kind of person you want to be, you attract like-minded individuals. I'd rather be around someone who might not be millionaire status, but has their head on straight and going in the right direction, than someone who's successful financially, but not in any other ways. It takes more than just money to be truly rich, after all.

Now of course, there will always be those that lure folks in with false hopes, empty promises and lies. They become successful, but that success is short-lived. I have witnessed bad mentors being "ratted out" by their disgruntled team members. When that happens, I imagine it's impossible to save their reputations. Could ruin any other business they attempt in the future as well. That's why I say it's so important to really study a sponsor, to do as much research on them as on the business itself before you join. That way, no surprises will come your way.

-PA27

Thanks for the detailed response PA27

Just a couple of little things that might be an interesting read on the net for this sort of topic.

'A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that involves paying abnormally high returns ("profits") to investors out of the money paid in by subsequent investors, rather than from net revenues generated by any real business, named after Charles Ponzi.' from Wikipedia. Just an interesting read.

and also

PRODUCT-BASED PYRAMID SCHEMES:
When Should an MLM or Network Marketing Program Be Considered an Illegal Pyramid Scheme?

You are right about one thing: folks should make up their own minds.

As a sponsor, I don't force anyone to do anything. The first thing I do is a goal-setting session with my team members. If their goals have to do with things such as getting out of debt, replacing their job or earning a specific amount in a specific time frame (something that would require larger income), then we focus on how to help them reach those goals, whether it be through the program (which is the route most choose to go), or through other means (such as using the training to launch other business ideas, which I also help with). If their goals are simply just to own and run a business, not necessarily to replace income but to supplement, then we look into whatever options can help them with that while not taking too much time away from their every day lives.

I disagree a bit with that article in your post, though. It refers to members of MLM and other such opportunities as "victims." You can only be victimized if you allow yourself to be. Seems that folks turn a blind eye to the fact that these "victims" chose to part with their money. Therefore, how can they be considered victims? Because someone lied and instead of doing ample research, they chose to believe the lies? That doesn't seem right. Now I do think that many opportunities are wrong for falsely presenting themselves, and don't bother to change their approach or jargon until someone seeks legal action against them. That's why I stress the importance of running an ethical business. But then again, it's hard for me to consider someone a victim when they've allowed a thing to be done to them. If a person is willing to invest in something, then they should be willing to accept the consequences. If a person is that wary or skeptical in the first place, perhaps they shouldn't be investing at all.

And why is it that folks seem so savvy when purchasing a new vacuum or appliance, consulting Consumer Reports, reviews and other resources, but they seem to lose that savvy attitude when it comes to investing in something that costs significantly more? Could it be that the thought of large amounts of money in return blinds them? And if that's the case, can such a person really be considered a victim? A victim of their own greed, maybe...


Also another thing. Yes, many distributors from nearly every opportunity out here focus mainly on the income-earning aspect. I've always said that I don't agree with that, and that's why I run my business differently. I and several other sponsors I know focus on the products, the training and the services we offer to businesses. And that's not something that changed overnight. There are just as many of us "good sponsors" out here doing business the way it should be done. That's why I take some of these comments that folks here make so personally. It's a bad as a parent telling their child "you won't be worth anything because I'm not." So if anything, I offer the suggestion of looking at this and any other business on an individual level, because every distributor runs their business differently. Yes, there is a basic business model to go by, but we are allowed to change the way we operate within that model.

Also, you chose to pick out one line in a pretty large post that I made. Instead of taking it for what it was, which was my answer to the specific question "PA27, have you seen not-so-good sponsors?" you chose to turn it into something else. Any program out here is going to have it's fair share of good and bad sponsors. To say that my comment should be taken as warning enough against this specific program is a bit wrong, when that statement can apply to any business opportunity out here. And again, that's why I encourage those who are interested to do a fair amount of research on the sponsor they're interested in joining with. That will eliminate the whole "victim" thing that your article speaks of. And as far as your claim that the only people speaking highly of it are those on the inside, that would be true of any product. Why would I sing praises about something I've never had experience with before? How could I, in all fairness, speak highly of the business model if I didn't know much about it? And how would I truly know all their is to know about it unless I was involved with the business somehow? That's the whole point of customer reviews, so that you can get opinions from those who've witnessed or experienced something. So if I'm a customer (which I am), and I'm having success with something, why wouldn't I give a good review?

I think there are 2 main problems with society: the first is that we like to have something else or someone else to blame for our mistakes. No one likes the idea of taking responsibility for their actions anymore. If someone commits a murder, suddenly there were "insinuating circumstances." If someone robs someone, it was because he or she was "a product of their environment," not because they were just plain wrong and greedy. I don't consider myself a victim of the other business opportunities I've been a member of. If anything, I should have known better than to invest my money at a time in my life when I didn't have much to spare. Any financial hardship that came afterwards wasn't the company's fault, because I made the decision. They didn't dig into my wallet or bank account and take the money out. They didn't buy my personal and financial info from another company and enroll me without my knowledge. I did it on my own, and I suffered the consequences. As I've said, most of the failure I've seen has come from folks either not doing their research, or from not thinking the entire situation out (including how it would affect their personal and financial future) before they jumped in. Can we all be adult enough to at least admit that many of us don't think things through before we get involved? If we did, we wouldn't have the problems we have, so regardless of how many are willing to admit it, we all know it's true.

Secondly, people don't like change. They don't like the unfamiliar. They don't like what they aren't accustomed to. People working from home and being successful isn't what we're accustomed to. We're used to working our lives away for someone else. That's what we're taught. That's why we go to school, that's what our parents and their parents were taught. Just because something goes against the grain doesn't make it wrong. If that were the case, we would be without many of the great inventions that have become part of our everyday lives. If Ben Franklin and Albert Einstein hadn't gone against the grain, we'd still be living i dark houses using candles for light, and being ignorant of the world and it's elements. Though people don't think in this way, there is good that can come from unconventional ideas.

Of course, the government would like us to believe that MLM and such things are "scams" because this country is set up so that the government benefits the most from you working long days, weekends and holidays. Doesn't it seem strange that the more jobs you have to work just to make ends meet, the more taxes they take out? It's all set up to help them, to fatten their wallets, so it follows that folks looking to earn in a different way (where maybe the government won't benefit as much as they would if that person were working a job) would be looked at as thieves and scam artists. Yes, we live in a free country, and that's great. We should give back. But the government doesn't do as much for it's citizens as it should. Why is it that we're considered a world power, but all of our legal citizens don't have free health care? Other countries do. Why is it that our elderly are constantly denied their social security and disability? Why is it that the government would rather put money into a falsely-represented war than the education and well-being of it's young people? The things that the government makes us feel are privileges are actually God-given rights. They just choose to capitalize on what should be ours anyway. I find it hard to agree with much that's said by a government who treats it's countrymen and women in this way, especially when it comes to something that's helping me to live the life I've always wanted.

And again, EDC isn't completely based on recruiting members. If that's the way some distributors choose to promote it, then take up your pyramid claims with them. When a person joins, no one forces them in one direction or another. They can choose to promote the products or the PromoBlackBox product, which doesn't require you to recruit anyone, and gives the opportunity to earn residual income. You're simply selling advanced marketing services and tools to businesses. Any member at any level of EDC Gold can promote PromoBlackBox. That means someone can join for only $70 a focus on selling a product from which they can earn $495 a pop without depending on a downline, and without paying anything extra to be able to do so. If the company were really all about money and screwing folks over, the folks getting in cheapest probably wouldn't be allowed such.

It's all about your perception and your mindset. If you're set on only viewing it as a scam, no one can sway you from that thought. But that seems like a pretty close-minded way to live life. If you're seeking info, have an open mind. Don't stick rigidly to an idea just because that's all you've ever known, or because a main authority tells you to (unless it's law, mind you). Sometimes it really pays to think outside the box. I'm not hear to force folks into the program, or to promote myself. I'm just here to answer the questions and provide facts. As a matter of fact, these days, folks come to me in search of more info. I don't shove it in their faces or spam their inboxes. So as long as there is a need for correct information about the program, I'll be glad to provide it.

-PA27