First of all csendres, you are being completely unrealistic. You are proposing
"what ifs" that have no real basis or probability. I will explain.

Do you honestly see the entire population of the world (i.e. every man, woman and child alive right now) joining EDC Gold until a point where there is no one left who is not a member? If you do, then you might want to get back in touch with reality. I don't say that to be rude, but truthful. Unless there has been a news report that every woman alive has agreed to stop giving birth, and unless every human being were of age and had spending power to join a business opportunity, there is no way that everyone on earth could join this or any other business and go to the point where there is no market left. That is not just true for EDC Gold, but any business opportunity. Now, my descriptions above may seem a bit outlandish, but that is what you're proposing, is it not? Otherwise, there is no possibly way for EDC Gold or any other opportunity to achieve world domination and corner the marketplace.

Now, lets look again at the business models. EDC Gold (in case you haven't read the other hundreds of posts in this thread), does not work solely by recruiting someone into the opportunity. The program actually has up to 5 different streams of income for members to work with, some of which are retail-only products and services ( sold to end-users who have no affiliation with the EDC Gold program or company except as customers). Nor do these customers have to become members of EDC Gold in order to purchase the retail products and services we provide. While 1 and 2 up programs normally require new members to pass up a certain amount of sales to their sponsor before they are eligible to earn 100% commissions, EDC Gold gives us as sponsors the option to have new members pass up sales. It is not forced, not set it stone. Actually, there are many sponsors now who do not require that these sales be passed up. Now, I'm going to paint a scenario. Imagine for a moment that every current member in EDC Gold elected for their new members not to have to pass up sales (because as I said, we do have this option regardless of what level or how long we've been a member). What would be your argument against the program then? Now, would this happen in real life? Probably not. But there is more of a possibility of this happening than the entire world joining one business opportunity. I'm not sure where you've gotten your information about this program, but before trying to put the business model down, perhaps it's best to learn more about exactly what this particular opportunity offers (and not just what compensation model it employs).

Now, in your earlier post you gave the impression that legitimate MLM does not focus on or encourage recruiting. As I mentioned, there are many (and all of the ones that I've been a member of or approached by) MLM's that do in fact reward their members for recruiting. If they didn't, why would there be a need to pay members fast-start bonuses for bringing in new members? Does that not seem to you like MLM's are rewarding their members for recruiting? You also mentioned this statement in your most recent post:

Sounds to me like if both are "avidly approaching a prospect for inclusion in their organization," that the intent is simply to get that prospect into their organization, which would mean recruiting. Because we cannot account for each individual sponsor and why they do the things they do, who are we to say what their intentions were anyway? You may think because someone is a part of an MLM that they are "avidly approaching a prospect for inclusion in their organization" so that they can further a business that drives products. However, why not simply sell the products and not worry about recruiting at all? Perhaps because with MLM's there is no way to balance the overhead involved just selling the products. As I also mentioned, many MLM's require that their members be on "case auto-ship," meaning that members must purchase a certain amount of products each month to remain a member. So imagine if a member of an MLM only sold their products (with no recruiting). They'd be lucky to break even or gain just a bit of profit because they had to purchase the products to sell first. They would have to either seriously mark up the prices of the products to make a decent profit (and that's assuming they can actually sell all of the product they've had to purchase through case auto-ship), or recruit new members in order to create the residual effect.

Lets talk about longevity. With EDC Gold, I do not have "overhead." I do not have to purchase any products to remain a member. And if I were to only sell products and not gain new members, I would do much better than breaking even. I know because I've done this. However, I choose to welcome new members at their request, because they're interested in learning about internet marketing, some of the products we have or already have a business and want to learn how to drive t raffic to their sites and how to effectively close sales. I do not recruit people for the purpose of making money, because the way our system is set up and with the choices that I have, rarely do I require my members to pass up both or any sales. Yet I still help them extensively. And I am not the only one. There are many EDC Gold members who operate in much the same way that I do.

I do not need "incentive" to help my team members to succeed. That little concept, "incentive," is what creates the pyramid structure that is so despised. When a company feels the need to offer an "incentive" to encourage current members to help new members get started, the incentive takes the form of "residual income." But what I'd like to know is that if most folks who are currently in MLM were suddenly notified that they would no longer receive monthly commissions for each member of their downline or fast-start bonuses for new members, would they still work to help their members, would they even still bring in new members for the company, or would they even remain members at all? With EDC Gold, I'm not rewarded monetarily for bringing in new members. My customers pay me directly, and just one time (unless at the monthly level). The company does not pay me at any point. So if I were told that from now on I'm only allowed to sell product and not to recruit, I'd still make a large profit, and I'd still have residual income. And because I'm more concerned with building my business and helping others, I can honestly say that I'd remain a member. So I ask, after that analysis, which model seems to have longevity?

A pyramid suggests that members rely on recruiting and keeping members in their organization to earn profit. With EDC Gold, I do not have to focus on recruiting just to earn, and I'm eligible for residual income from the sale of our services, not from new members. There always has been and always will be a market for what I provide, especially if I brand myself and my services. And last but not least, if you want to count it as overhead, I pay $30 a month in admin fees. However, just one sale (of any membership level, product or service) will put me in profit. I cannot say that for the MLM's that I'm familiar with. If you can, please do. It would be interesting to learn more about those MLM programs which could have longevity.

At the end of the day, there is something that I want to make sure we all realize. EDC Gold is not (and should not be thought of as) an end-all to financial issues. I've been a member for quite a while now, and enjoying the things I'm learning, new people I'm meeting and the income I'm making. However, EDC Gold is just my vehicle....just the stepping-stone to take me into other ventures. I feel that it does have longevity based on its industry, market and business model, and it will remain a part of my business portfolio for as long as it is in existence. However, I'm learning the skills necessary to start and succeed with other ventures, such as real estate investing and new business services. That is what is most important. To learn valuable and versatile skills while earning in the process is the whole point. What I've learned and acquired with EDC Gold can take me far beyond just this program or industry. However, I feel that what is being taught and encouraged within the MLM's that I'm familiar with are not skills that can help members succeed on other platforms or in other ventures. I feel that most of the tactics employed in the MLM's I'm familiar with would only work for another MLM. They do not give members the ability to branch out, brand themselves, and create new services. That too is a part of longevity which I think most MLM does not provide (again, based on the programs I'm familiar with). It's not just about residual income, but how you can use what you've learned to better yourself and bring you success in other ventures.

One last question...what exactly do you do? I feel that such a strong debate in favor of MLM suggests that you are (or have been at one time) a member of an MLM (after all, only experience with such a model would make one feel so strongly about it, IMHO). It would be interesting to compare EDC Gold to what you do. I have noticed that throughout the debates about this program, the opposition always comes from someone who never gives much insight into their own experience with the program or a similar program, or even what they do and how it differs from EDC Gold. That is just an observation. We are all here to learn and grow, so insight would really help this discussion along, don't you think?

-PA27

Ok let me tell you my story. I joined in the middle of January really excited because I was ready to make money
like they were claiming. I joined under the so-called Top Earner because I wanted to get the support and training
site he was talking about. Well I did and one of his training partners walked me through the process of paying and
getting everything ready untill it came to marketing, STOP. Thats where it ended. So when they say they walk you by
the hand, they really dont. So anyways, I looked over the training site atleast 5 times but I still was confused, maybe
its because im a newbie, but come on now, I could of came up with a better training site then that. All it is, is just
a bunch of good information, but there is no guidance at all. Talking about step by step, yeah right. Well to this point
I was getting frustated so I actually emailed my sponsor for help and he said, "I cant walk you by the hand." Well thats
all I needed to hear. Even know I waisted a lot of money, I still took it as a learning experience.
I moved on and found bigger and better. These people are honest. This business is really easy.
A newbie can do it, because im a newbie. Theres training and support. I mean I cant say enough about this business,
theres so much positive things with this. For whoever doesnt want to waiste their money and keep getting frustated,
then I suggest you take a fair look at....
www thousandsallday com

Thank you and God Bless. May your dreams come true.

Chris

This is one thing I'm seeing a lot of lately (and I know exactly who's responsible for it). There are folks who used to be in EDC Gold, and stayed in for a good, long time. As soon as a new opportunity came about, they jumped into that one. Then they put on the sob-story to make it seem as if EDC Gold is the most horrible company on the internet to draw their EDC members and those interested in EDC into the other programs they're a part of.

The interesting thing is that the very same folks turn around and start to bash EDC Gold (the reason they have had success and made a name for themselves in the home business industry in the first place), saying things like "Once I started to take a look at the products, I found out they were garbage..." and "I discovered that EDC Gold is so unethical that I couldn't sleep at night while I was still a member..." I don't quite understand why these things were never a problem a few months ago while they were still earning money with EDC Gold, or even before they joined... but now that they have new ventures going the EDC Gold program is suddenly supposed to be unethical and the products are "garbage." But the most interesting thing of all is that none of them tell their stories with the intentions of "warning" others about a scam. They do so (and do not tell the whole truth in the process) only to sway those who may be doing research into their new ventures (hence the inclusion of their website). This particular message was also posted to the comments of a blog about EDC Gold. I'm surprised no moderator has gotten to it yet (no link but still implied and spamming...).

It is folks like this who give home business in general a bad name. They jump from program to program, only looking to make a quick buck. And unfortunately, they leave a lot of people high and dry in each of the programs they've been involved in. It is why I suggest that if anyone is interested in a home business, that they really do their research first. And not just on the program, but the products and the potential sponsor. There is a lot to sift through out here, and most of it is just competitors duking it out against each other. Be careful not to get caught up in the hype that either side is throwing about. Focus on looking past all the glitz and glamor at the actual opportunity. Then you can make an informed decision for yourself.

The sob-story is the new "hype." If you don't believe me, see how many come with a link to another program attached. Be careful what you buy into...

-PA27

Thousand all day... hmmm.

What is wrong with people just working in 'normal' business. Maybe things that are innovative, new, exciting... but not the MLM type stuff which involves others signing up/joining to run the same business.

To be honest, and a bit blunt... after all these thread posts... which doesn't just end it's natural life (so I keep getting notifications I can't be bothered stopping)... I think with all the information available if people want to part with their money to 'Get Rich Quick' (it is, no doubt any of it isn't marketed on this) then it is their choice and potentially their loss of money & time.

If the Schemes all have such great products etc etc... and so much money to be made... why pay to sell the product or service? Why not simply sell the product/service and get commission etc... as most business that does not have such negative opinions and attitudes towards it (also can not be denied otherwise this thread would not exist).

For me, the first warning sign is a business that you pay to have the 'privilege' of selling their goods or services in order for you to 'Make Lots of Wonderful Money With Just a Little Hard Work Following these Steps'. (Not talking the big guys out there people know about, such as Disney)

Also... I didn't think Csendres gave any 'whatifs'... I though the concept was just explained as it stands, and how it can be considered... just like using an existing formula and setting the variable at an extreme.

I find it funny though that PA27's criticism of Cxendres including a 'whatif' included a 'whatif' response also! What if people decided to give their cut/commission (whatever it is) back to the people they earnt it from? Like this is even going to happen when most people join to get rich... and it is not really relevant in the current situation... completely unrelated to how things work now with EDC Gold.

One thing I am very (very) curious about... Does EDC Gold have any 'entry' requirement to the programme apart from $s? Do people have to show anything about themselves, the way they operate, how they will present the product etc?

In my spare time like this (since it is the early hours of the morning here & I just can't sleep) I might just take a little more time to join what I see this as becoming... a debate.

Indeed - these are the bottom dollar chasers I think these programs necessarily attract. There has been a load of spam in this thread I removed from people stating not to join EDC but some alternative program - the one above I was going to remove, then thought I'd leave it in for context.

I think the bottom line is that there are a lot of people looking for easy money with little work. Which kind of seems very unrealistic. There are loads of different income opportunities on the web, but none that I know of involve getting paid 6 figures for sitting on your ass.

All of them involve some degree of ground work, and often the amount of work you put in has some form of proportional relationship with the rewards you get out of it. Not strictly true, but I think it's important for anyone to realise that if someone ever gets paid 6 figures for being sat on their ass, it's only because they sweated their ass off for a long time to earn them that benefit in the first place.

2c.

I quite agree brian. One thing I try to make sure folks understand is that this, like any other business or job, takes work to make money. I work just as hard (if not harder) than some folks do at a job. The only difference is that I work from home and set my own hours. I wish that I could say I lay around all day sipping mixed drinks on my deck while money falls magically into my lap. But that is so far from the truth that I have to laugh just thinking about it. I've put time, effort and a real investment into this program, just as someone would a franchise. I have created a home office, I set specific times of day to do various aspects of my work, we have the necessary forms to file taxes and list our deductions for next season, and I don't go anywhere without my business cards. So what has all of this gotten me? Now, after all the hard work I put in for 6 months after I joined, I have a system to help new members get started as soon as they join, tools to help them brand themselves, and I'm even being recognized in my community. I am taking on local clients to help them create an online presence and boost their businesses. Am I asking them to join EDC Gold or even purchase PromoBlackBox? Of course not, because with the knowledge I had before and everything I've learned since joining EDC, I'm being recognized as a marketing specialist in my community and can now name my own price. But none of that would have been possible without the hard work I put in at the beginning and up to this point. And like brian, I've never heard of any business or job that lets one sit around on their bums and do nothing while still earning. I'm not the kind of person to sit still for too long, so if this had been the case with EDC, I probably wouldn't have made any money, lol!

Now, on to David T's comments. I disagree with some of the comments you've made (though I won't go into those as I'm sure everyone here knows my stance and feelings on the program by now), but I do agree that there is enough info here for folks to make an informed decision. They know who started the program, what it provides, what products are sold through it, what kind of commission structure (and how much) is employed, and also what others may view it as (legitimate business vs. "get rich quick" scheme). That is more than enough info presented on both sides of the fence! I will, however, comment on your second post.

I called on of csendres' statements a "what if" because it is, simply put. You, I and everyone else know that there's no possible way that everyone in the world would join this particular home business. Not everyone will be interested in learning about marketing. If it is just the thought of getting rick quickly, there are a thousand programs out here who all push the same thing in that respect. I don't look at this or any business from the viewpoint of getting rich, therefore I don't market as such (and neither do my team members). If you were only to look at the income-earning aspect of the opportunity, then his comments of the market being completely depleted would be true not only of this opportunity, but all of them. However, if you look in terms of what products and/or services are offered by the opportunity, then I find it very hard to believe that the market will dry up any time soon (if that were the case, there would not be big name marketing firms doing so well out here).

The problem is that people limit their thought. They become 1-track. They think an online business is only meant to be run online. They assume people would only want to join for the income-earning portion (or that this is what will bring in the most money), so that's how they market. Because you can do it from any computer (in your spare time, no less), they treat it as a hobby instead of a business. I think folks will find that once they expand their thinking just a bit, a world of opportunity will open up for them. Here's a short example. I have a local client who has owned his own handyman business for the past 15 years. Because of what he does, he can really only market locally. When I took him on I evaluated his current marketing efforts, campaigns and website. What I found was astonishing. Just because you have to market locally does not mean your online marketing should suffer. He's doing about 10% of the things that his competition is doing. Not only this, but he's just chosen to market to the 4 major cities in our area, and not the surrounding cities (yet they are really not much further in distance, about 10 to 15 more miles outside of the area he's created for himself). When I began formulating a plan for him, I found that there were actually 6 more cities in the immediate vicinity that he could have been marketing to (cities that are up-and-coming, and becoming more desirable for retirement or brand new families). Do you realize how much business that's cost him over the past 15 years, all because he didn't expand his thinking? Also, while he does have a listing in the local phone book, he is not a part of any of the online directories such as local.com (but his competition is). When it comes to business, there is no reason to limit ourselves as we do. Many of the things we promote, whether from a home business, brick & mortar establishment or otherwise, are needed worldwide and for different reasons. Why should someone who's selling Mary Kay limit themselves to just marketing to women? They shouldn't of course (as many men buy such products for their mothers, wives, daughters, sisters and aunts as gifts. Even a recent story that Forbes and MSNBC found newsworthy said that more men are wearing made-for-men makeup products these days; if you're interested in the story, visit :Cosmetics the final frontier in male grooming trend), but most of the MK reps I've spoken with rarely ever approach men. So my ultimate feeling is that it is not about the market drying up for what we offer, but how we limit ourselves that causes the problem and makes it possible to form such a "what if." Did I answer him with a "what if?" Absolutely, to show how absurd the whole idea is. There is no way every single EDC Gold member would stop accepting those first 2 sales from there members, but there are many who do. If the other EDC Gold members who haven't yet caught onto this concept could see what benefit it brings (for both the new member and the sponsor) I feel that more would take it into consideration. Both of our "what ifs" were extreme hence the name). There is little chance of either coming to pass, but I still feel that EDC members no longer requiring the pass-up's (because of the realistic benefit, which is that they will attract more interest and less negativity when they learn to let go of those first 2 sales from each member) could happen more easily than everyone on the planet joining this one opportunity.

On to your theory about paying for the "privilege" sell products or services. Yes, we could all work "normal" jobs and be at the beck and call of an employer, or we could all have trades and own our own brick & mortar businesses. Either way, we are all paying for the "privilege" to earn money. I'm not sure about the connection you were trying to make with Disney, but lets look at a well-known international franchise like McDonald's. If someone wants to own a McDonald's franchise, they have to pay for that privilege. Does that make McDonald's a get-rich-quick scheme or scam just because people have to pay to own a franchise? I don't think so, and neither does the rest of the world. Lets turn around and look at those who just own their own business or those who work jobs. Regardless of which you do, in this country you have to pay taxes to the government for the privilege to have a job or own a business. How is this any different from online programs that require a monetary investment? The way I see it, I've purchased an online franchise. I can set my own prices for many of our products, and some prices are set by the parent company (again, not too different from McDonald's). The only difference is that I can choose to bring others in and train them because they have a desire to own a successful franchise as well.There was nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. And in terms of recruiting, there are many jobs that reward employees for referring new employees. The recruiting structure has been used since the dawn of time to further business or grow organizations. In the grand scheme of things, recruiting itself is not wrong. However, recruiting done with no benefit to the one being recruited is quite wrong in my opinion. I do not focus all of my attention on recruiting with this program. At the same time, bringing on new team members, as long as they are getting exactly what's been discussed and paid for, is not wrong so long as it's done in moderation. I'm not the type of person to like to put my eggs all in one basket anyway, so if an opportunity provides me with 5 ways to earn an income, you bet I'm going to use all 5!

In a nutshell, it's ultimately up to each individual how they choose to view this or any other business opportunity. My feeling is that when a business model is viewed as illegitimate or a scam, it's because people have made it so. That being said, look more at what is offered than how it is offered, and look more at who is offering it on an individual basis. People like that fellow Chris who made the one post above can make any business structure look bad. Just realize that there are opportunities out there, EDC Gold included, that can work and work well if viewed with an open mind and treated as a business instead of a hobby.

-PA27

Just on Csendres' whatif... really it is the same as saying... When every person interested in EDC at all has joined or made the purchase. Not unrealistic... same result... it is just the eventual extreme variable of effectively a business formula. Basically shows things can pretty much only go downhill with that business model.

McDonalds, Disney etc... have names of proven value... business models that work, no one denies that. And as per Csendres formula (keeping it simple)... those don't lose any potential over time or with growth. Comparing EDC with anything like that is just not even reasonable.

There are opportunities out there... for some EDC may be one, and if people really wanted to join I think I would only recommend they do so alongside you (PA27). I would just expect the opportunity for return does not meet the risk... let's just call that a gut feeling.

To DavidT,

Of course you have your feelings and opinions which are fine, and I respect those. I do not think that my comparisons dealing with franchises (I do not believe I compared EDC specifically to McDonald's, only the idea of purchasing franchises) were unreasonable, but then that's my opinion. I do not think that csendres' proposals show what direction this or any other business model is bound to go. If you are so close-minded that you only think in terms of people recruiting or joining the opportunity (and my comment is just based on the rebuttals I keep hearing over and over regarding recruiting or people joining), then you will never truly understand business and the possibilities that such a program as EDC Gold presents. If you are open-minded enough to look beyond the membership aspect of this business to the products and services we provide, then you will at least be able to understand my previous post and how we as individuals can sometimes affect our own success by our method of thinking.

My main point is that EDC Gold is a business opportunity, and meant to be treated as such (not a hobby or get rich quick scheme). I feel that when folks take it as such, it is because of their own mentality, not what the business presents. I also feel that markets do not dry up, but that people limit themselves in the way they choose to market. Ultimately, people are their own worst enemies and biggest downfall when it comes to success.

As far as your last comment, I disagree. When treated as a business, studied, understood, and marketed as such (which believe it or not, there are folks out here who do just this), I think the benefits from EDC Gold can far outweigh the risk. Not just monetarily, but in terms of the education and experience received (again, you may be thinking too 1-track, only focusing on the income-earning potential and nothing else). There is much to be gained from EDC Gold in terms of experience, up-to-date skills, strategies and techniques, and so on. As I've stated before, I look at EDC Gold as a whole, the entire package, not just whether money can be made.

However, if you want to talk "return" and "risk," lets do. Someone can test this opportunity out right now for free, and have a chance to learn even more about the company, as well as partake in the training, listen to/view recordings of past trainings and webinars, speak with the owners....the only thing they wouldn't be able to do is access our products or earn commissions because they do not have the products to sell (this shows what members are paying for, and it's not access to the program or members area but our actual product suite). A person can remain a free member (no fees involved whatsoever) for as long as they like (I have even spoken with a gentleman who has been a free member for almost a year, working to learn all he can before he makes a decision). That gives a person plenty of time to decide how much of a risk joining the program will be. And even once they decide, their "risk" does not have to be $1000 or even $400. There "risk" can be as low as $69.95 ( or with the current special offer just $1 for their first full month). To me, that's a small price to pay to get involved in something that can potentially change your life for the better if treated like a business. I'm not just saying that because I'm a member. If I were to quit EDC Gold today, I could still go on into other ventures (even acquire local marketing clients and set my own fee), and be successful because of what I've learned and gained through this company. So I consider my "risk" to be well worth it (and I've made a nice income in the process)!

With most things in life, there is risk involved. The main idea should be to lessen or limit the risk as much as possible. EDC Gold helps folks to do this by offering the free and $1 trials, and by offering multiple product-purchase options. People can decide for themselves which product package they want to purchase, how they want to join, and how much they want to invest, instead of forcing them to invest $1000 or more like so many other home business programs. Lets get back to the concept of risk. Comparing again the idea of franchises (not any one in particular directly with EDC Gold), a well-established businessman or businesswoman can purchase a franchise from a well-known and solid company, and face risk. Just because the parent company is well-known and reputable does not mean every single franchise will be successful. There are several factors that affect the success of a franchise (location, level of customer service, pay rates for employees, local advertising...). But the risk is taken because of the potential seen by that businessperson. This is the way a business-minded person has to think in order to succeed. Not everything is guaranteed, but you learn to invest your time and money into things which have the most potential. That is the only way to know and to experience. If we never venture forth and try, how will we ever know what could have been? When I joined EDC Gold back in Feb., I took a big risk at the time (with my financial situation not being the best). I invested about $327 and a good amount of time to get going. Sure, it could have failed miserably. But how would I have known if I didn't at least try? And back then, there was an option to get started for as low as $15(yet people still complained about the prices and risks). Even though that pricing has gone up (because more and better products and services have been added), the risk is still not so huge that it will ruin someone's life.

If someone is not happy with their current situation, they cannot experience a change until they first take action. That action could be searching for a new job, going back to school to learn something new, or starting a private or home business venture. Regardless, there is risk, and always the possibility that things will not go as planned. But then, there is also always the possibility that things can go much better than planned. It all comes down to the individual and how far they are willing to go to change their situation. Success is not determined by a business model alone, but by the person employing it. EDC Gold has provided (and still continues to provide) several ways for a person to be successful. It's up to the person to take advantage of what's provided in the right way.

If someone is that worried about the risk, then there is plenty of opportunity to learn about the program BEFORE they join. There is more than enough info, personal testimony including considering the source, their intentions and their history/track record with the program) and contact information on the internet to put the pieces together intelligently. Not to mention, the free trial is offered prominently on most every website I've seen (including the replicated ones). I really feel that there is no reason for a person to be ill-informed about anything these days, unless they just haven't done their research before getting involved. And if they've taken an adequate amount of time to learn about the program and their choice in potential sponsors, there should be little "risk" to be considered by the time they join, other than the initial investment (which again doesn't have to be a high one). And at the end of the day, if it still seems like such a scary proposition then no one is forced to join (whether or not a person joins my team, I can still earn by marketing my products and services to those who need assistance developing and growing their businesses, and so can any other EDC Gold member if they choose to). But when I think about risks such as this (and even I'm going through this now as my fiancee and I are launching other new ventures locally which, trust me when I say, require much larger investments than even $1000), I remember our experiences (and those of my family and friends) in the workforce. The workforce isn't kind or understanding of personal situations. It doesn't care how many kids you have, how old you are, if you're in debt (unless they look at credit when considering whether or not to hire you). It doesn't care when rent is due, or if you're behind on your car note. Nor does the workforce care about your idea of a secure retirement. The workforce is structured to earn more steadily and securely for those in top positions, or for the government. It is not structured with the best interests of the working class, the people who really drive it, in mind (if that were the case, our minimum wage here in the US would be much higher, it wouldn't take decades for it to be increased, and it would be increased by more than 10 or 15 cents at a time). So, I'm not putting all of my nest eggs in a basket provided by a job. Personally, I'd rather take this kind of risk one time than constantly gamble on the possibility of a secure future with a job(while wasting valuable time doing so, time that could be better spent with my own family). That is just my opinion, but I want more for my family. If it means taking a risk here and there to achieve it, then I'm more than up to the challenge!

There doesn't have to be such a gray area when it comes to home business or even EDC Gold. Put simply, things are what YOU make them. You can either take the bull by the horns and vow to create your own success, or you can spend your whole life waiting for it to come to you (and you'll be waiting a long time). There is a saying that I use often, and it relates perfectly to the discussion at hand. In life, there are no such things as failures. All that we go through is necessary to move us forward down our intended paths. Even looking back at risks I've taken in the past which haven't gone as I planned, I do not view them as failures. Without them, I would never have gotten to this point. From risk, you can reap much greater rewards than the obvious...but it's always possible to have that too!

-PA27

Ina ("PA27") and I, along with several others, have been discussing the legality or otherwise of the EDC Gold opportunity on a number of other forums. There are serious legal questions to be answered with respect to both US federal law, and state law. For example, as Ina lives in North Carolina, she is legally required to comply with Article 19, Chapter 66 North Carolina General Statutes, which contains the following definition...

"A business opportunity is the sale or lease of any products, equipment, supplies or services for the purpose of enabling the purchaser to start a business."

...then goes on to make a number of requirements with respect to registration, lodging of a bond, and making a disclosure statement, none of which Ina has, by her own admission, met.

She would have serious problems registering her business in North Carolina due to the following Statute:

Most other states have similar legislation. In addition there are precedents for the FTC and SEC taking action against pyramids under federal laws. So, whatever people decide to conclude about the ethics of these programs, or the chances of making money with them, please do bear in mind that they are illegal. If they grow large enough for the authorities to take an interest they will be shut down, and you may find yourself ending up in court.

Why hello there Ponzi! How nice to see you again!

Ponzi is right, he and I (as well as others) have been discussing the legality of the EDC Gold program. It appears he's even found it necessary to follow me around from forum to forum when I ignore his negative comments (how nice to have my own little entourage)! I wish I could call the debate an interesting one, but it's simply full of negativity that I'd rather not be a part of. I will, however, comment on what was said here.

Ponzi and others have tried to convince the general public that I am operating illegally in my state (by running a home business that is not registered, or doesn't follow the above-listed statute). It is interesting that he seems so determined to stain my name in this way, when I've had no dealings with him whatsoever (other than run-ins in forums). However, for the sake of argument we'll take into account what he proposes to be true.

I have been in contact with Mary Kelly of the Business Opportunities Dept. of the NC Secretary of State office. I'm not someone who defies the law for the hell of it, so I've inquired about EDC Gold, what it is considered and what needs to be done on my part to operate legally in this state. I've now received 2 responses from Ms. Kelly, and both have led me to believe that EDC Gold isn't such a big deal to them as Ponzi would have anyone believe. Here is the first of the responses from her:

Dear Ms. Stanley,

Unless you are going to be selling business opportunities in North
Carolina, you would not need to complete the documentation to file as a
business opportunity. However, I have included the information on how to
register as a business opportunity. This information is also available
on our website at MISSION STATEMENT - just click on the Business
Opportunity Sales Act Information.

Regards,
Mary E. Kelly


This left me with a few questions, mainly what she and the Business Opportunities Dept. here in NC consider "selling" business opportunities. So I sent another message to her, explaining the main earning components of EDC Gold's business model and asking whether or not these would classify what I do as "selling" business opportunities. Here is a snippet of what I sent:

I am a member of a business opportunity called EDC Gold. Through them, I provide marketing training and services to both businesses and entrepreneurs. This opportunity has 2 components: I can sell our retail products and services to others (strictly end-users with no affiliations to the company), and I can sponsor those who wish to start their own home businesses in the same way that I have. I'm not sure if that would be considered selling business opportunities or not by your department (though I am a distributor, not the company owner). Please help me to understand if indeed I fall under that category and if so, please explain what documentation (if any) I will need to provide.


And here is Ms. Kelly's second reply:

I'm sorry but I am unable to answer your legal questions. All that we
can do is point you to the N.C.G.S. and the requirements for business
opportunities. We are not allowed to individually tell whether or not
you are a business opportunity. An attorney would probably be helpful
in answering these questions.

Best regards,

Mary E. Kelly


What I gained is simply that I need to refer to an attorney (in my opinion one who specializes in MLM law) to determine how I should proceed. I have done this, contacting several attorneys here in my state and nationwide to try and better understand the laws surrounding home business. What I've decided to do is to create a blog, and as I am presented with arguments like the ones here (and as I find information pertaining to those arguments, be they responses from FTC representatives, from my state's Business Opportunities Dept. or from MLM attorneys), will post my findings for all to read. I figure this is the best way for all of us to learn about the legalities of home business in general. I am one of those people who is content to let officials and specialists do their jobs (instead of trying to make conjectures about what is or isn't legal, allowed or necessary/required action. Therefore I will be interested to learn from such professionals exactly what is allowed and what is necessary to operate legally.

From both my queries to the FTC and to the Business Opportunities Dept. here in NC, it has been suggested that I ask my questions to an attorney for the most accurate and specific answers. So lets hope that the list of attorneys I've contacted can shed more light on the matter.

In the meantime, I am still dedicated to running an ethical business, and to providing value to my team members and customers. I have always done this, and will continue to, so I have no worries about what the findings will be. Nor am I worried about any action that may be required of me, as I have no problems operating within the law. It is interesting, but I think that Ponzi is trying to scare me into submission by throwing around statutes from my own state. At the end of the day, the FTC or my state AG will determine whether what I'm doing is ok. I will await their answers on the legal issues instead of opinions and conjectures from those who really know little more than I do about the situation. There would only be a reason for me to worry if in fact I were doing something that I felt would backfire or bring trouble. I do not feel that way about EDC Gold, especially not the way I personally handle my business.

-PA27

Ina, I'm not trying to stain your name. However, it is clear to me that you are breaking the law. I am glad that you are planning to seek legal advice.

Just a quick pointer that I'd rather avoid accusations of a person or entity of having broken the law, unless it has been proven in a court of law of such a thing.

Otherwise we potentially open ourselves to issues of defamation, and after having had to defend The Finance Forums against this issue only a couple of weeks ago over a different thread, I'm pretty keen to avoid the EDC Gold thread developing similar.

Ok so bear with me here. I'm going to use an example that hopefully we can all relate to & that is a bit more clear cut first, then I'll relate it back to EDC.

Scale of Perceived Value (high -> low)

iPod ----------------------------------> Boiler Room Stocks

On iPods and their Perceived Value

Most people love their iPods. Except for the case where someone's iPod broke and wasn't able to get it fixed/repaired under warranty, people are generally very pleased with their iPods.

Apple has a very good reputation for putting a lot of thought & effort into the design of their products, delivering a superior machine albeit at a reasonably high price.

There's no confusion about what you're getting with an iPod, unless you have done literally no research whatsoever. They come in several sizes, colors and storage capacities, etc.

Average Perceived Value of your new iPod: ~ 90% of it's retail price

Just because we all have a little buyer's remorse sometimes, and as soon as it's no longer shin & new the resale value drops by a large fraction.

On Boiler Room stocks, and their Perceived Value

Boiler Room stocks, on the other hand, have no intrinsic value, that is of course, if you wait long enough for all the facts to be revealed.

If you've seen the film Boiler Room, you know what I'm talking about. The companies whose stock is pitched in that movie, are literally shell's of empty rented out office space with phones hooked up along the floor. Barely enough for the company to seem like it exists, so long as no one looks too closely into the firm's dealings.

The targets of boiler room stocks are people who want to see a large return on their investment in fairly short order. They are usually cold-called. They are usually not sophisticated investors, nor too savvy in the financial realm. They may not even have ever heard the term 'Boiler Room' or know that such things exist, except perhaps in passing.

So when they get cold-called by some hot shot who says he drives a Ferrari and makes all his money from these stock deals, his ear might perk up and he listens to what the guy has to say. After all, he's not the one driving a Ferrari. He might just be steadily paying his mortgage and saving a little bit here and there for retirement (perhaps $25k in life savings).

So when this John P. Q. Investor gets fooled by the pump n dump schemer, he has no idea what this company really does or what it's all about. Sure, the stock guy gave him all these lines of great info about the company, but what was really there? Nothing. All smoke & mirrors

So, what is the eventual perceived value of these boiler room stocks?

About $0, or ~0% of what they thought they were getting.

Perhaps more if the tricked investor is able to get his money out sooner rather than later.

How does this relate to EDC Gold?

FACTs:
* EDC Gold ("Easy Daily Cash") and its sister programs are all marketed through sites that appeal to people's desire to get rich
* The actual products (Internet Marketing virtual books & software) are hardly mentioned on these marketing sites for EDC Gold
* The "street value" as it were of these actual produts, can be determined by Googling them and searching for them on eBay. Many are given away for free or are sold on eBay for a few dollars down to $.99 per ebook.
* Resale rights packs of 100s of these exact products can be purchcased for $45 to $99, a fraction of the cost of EDC's $997 program. (this is, in all likelihood, where the EDC founders got the products from in the first place!)
* Money earned by top earners in the program is done by solely bringing other members online. (see note #1 below)
* We have Chris Campbell's income videos as proof of this. The vast majority of his income is in $997 payments that he ostensibly gets (or did get) by bringing new people into EDC Gold, not by actually selling one off ebooks that are included in the package, or otherwise using the software included in the EDC package.

Note #1:

Show me ONE SINGLE CASE where an EDC Gold member has actually made a *significant* amount of money by reselling and/or somehow using the products provided, to make money.

I would not be surprised if literally, not even one single EDC Gold member had made more than $200 selling resale right ebooks that are available on eBay for $.99, many of which (100s and 100s) can be bought in "resale right packs" for $45 or $99.

If they have, show me screenshot & website proof. They're certainly happy to show proof of selling people into EDC -- what about using their own "dogfood" as it were?

PA27 has put up a valiant defense here, but as someone who's been through it myself, the actual products are laughable. The whole system is about selling the dream of being rich; the products are merely there so they don't get shut down too soon & sued into oblivion by State Attorney Generals. (it will happen eventually though, imho)

My Story

I will post another followup post with my EDC Gold story along with another experience in the MLM world.

Cheers! Hopefully some future Googlers will read this & they'll at least have 1 more person's take on this whole issue.