Ok, I'm going to break this one down, because I'm seeing some things that don't make a lot of sense to me.

First of all, I've explained about EDC's no refund policy in this thread already. There is no refund because the products are in a downloadable format. It's impossible fore EDC to get all of their products back from anyone (as they'd have to go to each individual house and erase the products one by one from each person's hard drive). Many other companies sell tangible product that can be returned to them, and they provide their refund once they've received their product back. Since EDC cannot do that, they do not offer a refund. Not to mention, it is something that is plainly spelled out in the terms. Those that don't agree with such terms aren't forced to sign up. Simple as that.

Next off, you can't blame a company for ruining your friendship. Everyone has choices. Your friend chose to act in the way that he did, stating that this business was easy and didn't take a lot of .work It was also his choice to promise that he'd help you make your money back. And you chose to believe him. That isn't EDC's fault. I've said over and over, in this forum and others, that it's so important to choose a sponsor that has a plan set in place to help you. You should have done research on whether your friend was earning before believing everything he said. And he shouldn't have lied to you saying that this business is so easy when he wasn't earning himself.

I'd love to know exactly what either of you tried to do to work your businesses. Did you even take the time to market? Did you attend any of the company training to get some helpful advice? Did you place any ads at all? Or did you just sit and expect folks to visit your site, become instantly interested and join with you? As for the the leads, it's also your choice to purchase those, no one forces you. It's not required to be a member. Most good sponsors will tell you that leads and such things don't often work. If you'd bothered to do any research before joining, you'd have probably picked that up.

And who on earth is Peter Moore (never heard of him). And no matter how rude he seemed, you can't expect someone else to understand the depth of your friendship except you guys. And in my opinion, your "friend" doesn't seem like he's been a very good friend. Otherwise, he wouldn't have lied to you about a business he wasn't doing well with, just to get a thousand bucks out of you (that probably didn't even go to him).

I'm sorry if I seem harsh, but people, you've got to look at the whole situation. Everyone is so quick to blame their issues on a business opportunity without even stopping to think about what they could have done to cause or help along the problems that exist. Understand that both you and your friend chose to do the things you've done. No one forced either of you. He chose to hype things up and lead you on, and you chose to follow blindly and join at the absolute highest level (when there are 2 other memberships that are more affordable you could have chosen). You let the promise of big money blind you and dull your senses, as did your friend. You cannot blame EDC for that.

I have said, and will keep saying, that EDC is a great opportunity for those who are willing to put forth the effort and treat it like a business instead of trying to make it a get-rich-quick thing. That starts at the very beginning with doing your research. Every opportunity isn't for everyone. If you do become interested in EDC, do just as much research on the sponsor you're joining with as on the program itself. Often times the leadership given (or lack thereof) can make or break a person. Next, if you're the kind of person who only joined because of the easy factor, then business in general is not for you. No business is easy money, I don't care what any ads or anyone else says. EDC is definitely easier than some things you could be doing, like working a 9 to 5 job, but it still takes time and effort on your part.

And last but not least, you should never allow anything to ruin your financial situation. For example, I had the $997 to spare when I joined, but I joined at the $297 level. Why? Because I knew that I might need extra funds for advertising and such, so to me it was better to save the other $700 for things I might need down the road. And it worked out just fine! I'm now seeing success with EDC, and welcoming new team members every few days. And they seem happy with the training and tools they're receiving from me. They are not bitter about joining. And no, I did not promise them the world before they joined. I encouraged them to be as realistic with their goals as possible, and I let them know that they wouldn't become millionaires overnight. They seem to understand what it takes to make this business work, and we're all working toward our goals together. It seems that people tend to cut their common sense off when it comes to business. A good rule of thumb: you never invest more than you can afford to lose. If you couldn't afford to part with $1000 at that time, then you never should have chosen to invest that much. And you should never, ever follow someone blindly. You must always know what's involved, what's expected of you, and what the risks and consequences are. And if you were skeptical of his success, you should have looked at his situation more closely (after all, you were good friends right?). Was his lifestyle changing? Was he able to quit his job and work from home? Was struggling with financial issues or doing great? If you were such good friends, you'd have noticed some of this. And if nothing else, you should have done research on his sponsor and how well he was (or wasn't) doing.

As far as canceling, you need to contact Wendy Krosky in billing. She will need the first 4 digits and last 4 digits of the credit card you use to pay your administrative fee. Once you've given her that, she will cancel your account for you. That information, by the way, is not hidden. It is located on the first page in your back office. You can find both her email address and phone number there. Beware that she only works Monday through Friday, so you'd better contact her today.

Moral of the story? Use your common sense when dealing with anything business. And realize that you, and only YOU, are responsible for the choices you make. I am sorry that so much bad has happened to you and the person that brought you in. But realize again, that no one forced you, and that there was help to be found if you really looked for it. There are a ton of us out here offering help and offering to answer questions every day. If you take nothing else from this, remember one thing: you are an adult, and you alone are responsible for the decisions you make. No one else....


-PA27

lancelot, you will have to contact Wendy Krosky in billing to cancel your Dubbs site subscription. She will need the first 4 digits and last 4 digits of the credit card you use to pay for your Dubbs subscription. Her contact info can be found on the home page in your EDC back office. She only works Mon. - Fri., so you might want to contact her as early as possible today.

-PA27

Thank you for your help I was able to get the dubbs site subcrition canceled today.

Thanks everyone for your imput.

I do agree that we all make our own choices, and I have not put that much effort into EDC thus far. So I will reserve judgment at this time.

As for Craig, He called me "Stupid" for calling at 8:00 at night. For the record, There was absolutly no call for his attitude. I should point out that I only introduced my self as a member of EDC when he went into his tyraid. So, just know that he is one of the men that the web site says you can call directly. I would not count on him to close a deal for you.

P.S. Craig, Since you hung up on me Brother,

You answered the phone at 8:00pm. If you are bothered by 8 o'clock phone calls, it seems a little "stupid" to answer.

Hi LightHammer I am very interested.If you can ,send me a private message with the details.

Very interesting evolution of the discussion here.

My story is similar to "earnmore"s. I made a decision to learn online commerce, marketing, and advertising, in the fall of last year.

When I found EDC Gold, I realized I would have saved a few THOUSAND dollars on my education. And, for the record, there are over 1000 products in the back office, and not just a "bunch of e-books".

I think more than half of it, is software, and there is a whole slew of scripts back there (php, etc..). Me, I'm not a coder...... yet. Although I have learned more in the 6 weeks since I've joined, than in the 7 months previous to finding EDC.

I will also admit, I quickly sorted "the wheat from the chaf" in the online marketing world, and zeroed in on a handful of folks who under promised and over delivered. So when I found EDC, it really was at the right time, since I had learned a lot about how things work on the internet, just prior.

I would like to respond to lancelot's post, but, not being privy to the conversation, I can not. That doesn't much sound like the Craig Garcia I know. I suspect if he said what you attribute to him, you have gone light on the details here, as to your tenor.

That's not a shot at you lance, I'm just a little skeptical. Primarily, because the issue you were having trouble with, the cancelation of dubbs site, was just a matter of contacting the woman who's name is blatently obvious, if you ever logged into the back office.

I am glad you got it handled though. If you have a desire or a need to make money, have fun, and help others better themselves, I hope you'll give EDC a determined look, since it sounds like you have already plunked your money down

I just started doing some test marketing of my EDC business, and put out some ads 15 days ago. I'm busy with my other longterm business, and it's the rush season, so I've been busy with that.

5 days ago, out of the clear blue, a guy signed up under me, and his story is almost exactly like mine. Going online ..... has learned a ton over the last couple of years, happened on EDC, told me it was a no brainer. From a free ad I posted 10 days earlier!

Despite a little rancor along the way, I appreciate the respectful tone of this thread, or at least the willingness to embrace the age old "debate with civil decorum" which has expressed itself here.

PA27's comments on the "pyramid scheme" those who are the "worker bees" find themselves in, was very fascinating.

There is a movie I saw some years ago(can't remember which one. If you know, tell me). There is a bank ceo, and a regular joe standing at a window, looking out on a city, discussing money and power structures, and debt. The banker just says matter of factly..... "you folks all work for me".

At that moment I "saw" what he was talking about, and it was immense.

Our grandparents would never have dreamed of putting themselves under a crushing servile debt, just to "get what they want when they want it".

You want to talk about scams? Now THERE'S a scam. Selling the future away, to have a toy filled present, and it's considered NORMAL.

Stunning stuff.......... but I digress...

There is a movie I saw some years ago(can't remember which one. If you know, tell me). There is a bank ceo, and a regular joe standing at a window, looking out on a city, discussing money and power structures, and debt. The banker just says matter of factly..... "you folks all work for me".

At that moment I "saw" what he was talking about, and it was immense.

Our grandparents would never have dreamed of putting themselves under a crushing servile debt, just to "get what they want when they want it".

You want to talk about scams? Now THERE'S a scam. Selling the future away, to have a toy filled present, and it's considered NORMAL.

Stunning stuff.......... but I digress...

[/quote]

When I think of how my father worked late into the nights re-conditioning car alternators and making about $20 profit and how many times people have commented that such and such an alternator is still going sometimes up to 15 years later, it makes me wanna cry. The economic world now is a hotbed of profiteering schemes and I find myself lost in it as some sort of dinosaur. Most people today mistake sense of fair play for stupidity and I cannot work with this....I still (wrongly or rightly) believe that good money needs to be earned by good effort - God! how many times have we seen people come into big money real fast only to find that that money ends up having very little value ? Surely I am not the only one to have spotted this ?

Someone just give me something WORTH marketing and watch what happens... it's sort of like "use the biggest search engine in the world to aim the right product at the customers of the world's biggest industries"

GoodNight All

Welcome Dasman12! Glad to see more EDC members joining in on the discussion! And I'm glad to see that your business is starting to pick up! It's a nice feeling when you're receiving interest down the line from things you set in place days or weeks ago. Let's you know that you're on the right track! I hope both your businesses continue to grow!

As for lancelot's comments about Craig, that doesn't sound like the Craig I hear each week either (but then, we don't know what's going on in each other's lives, could be anything number of things that happened right before you called). I'm not taking sides at all, and like Dasman, since I wasn't there I don't know. But like it was said, I too hope that you give another good, long look at EDC. The need for the products we sell is as great as ever, and the business is really picking up. Would hate for you to miss out.

As for the rest who are reading this thread and researching, action will bring you many more answers than sitting back and watching. I encourage you to ask whatever questions you have, and really dig into EDC before making and judgments or decisions. It is well worth the research!

-PA27

First off....PETER Moore is Craig Moores brother. Ok.

Second off...the ebooks that they offer don't even sell on ebay at all. It didn't even go for 50cents. So basically there worth nothing.
Third off, I advertised through the roof. So did he for months everyday for 18hours a day. He actually did quit his job. But he lives with his parents. So he advertised so much and placed flyers and nothing. I did lots of advertising as well. Nothing. I really did just want to join at the 297$ level but he hyped it up so much for me because his sponsor is Craig Moore. Hyped it up that if i did the 297$ that I won't get rich. He literally threatened along with Craig Moore on the phone 297$ will not get you rich. So I joined 997$. Now I'm out 997$. I contacted Peter Moore and he didn't say no refunds because of the ebooks. He just said No refunds cause that's what it says. Basically this company is a fake fraud company. Yes I am adult but so is he and shouldn't have literally forced me to do 997$ leading on lies to me. Plus we were just more then friends, so not doing the 997$ thought he would get upset with me in that way. Childish? Yes, but that's relationships for you.

But now his parents kicked him out of the house and he had to go get a real job as a salesman at a car dealership. To earn money, something edcgold doesn't offer.

Well, it looks like EDC is another "results not typical" type of program. Some people will make a lot, some will not.

Ok. Again, I ask...who is Peter Moore? Or Craig Moore, for that matter? I know of a Craig Garcia, who's the one of the co-owners of this company. And I know that he has a brother named Rick. But Peter? Never heard of him.

Next, you say that you couldn't sell your products on ebay even for .50. I'm going to play out a little scenario and lets see what happens. I walk into a store to purchase a set of bath towels. I see two sets that seem identical. One set is selling for $10, the other is selling for $1. Now lets stop and think about this. Everyone likes a good bargain, but no one is foolish enough to choose such a "bargain" over something that presents itself as higher quality. In an effort to ensure I'm investing my money in the best choice, I'm definitely going for the $10 towels. Likewise, you didn't present your products as high-quality products. Yes, I consider EDC's products to be of great value, and many of them are scripts and tools I use on a daily basis. But would I buy the same thing from someone for 50 cents? Heck no! And that's because, from a customer's perspective, if it was really of quality, you would have priced it as such. You did yourself and the products a disservice by setting such a low price in the first place. You didn't present your products as if they had value, so no one else saw the value in them.

Now, this is what I really don't understand. You said that you were actually forced to join at the $997 level. You said that your "friend" and "Craig Moore" actually threatened you over the phone, saying that you wouldn't get rich if you joined at the mid level of $297. That sounds about as threatening as what I hear from telemarketers every day. I'm just going to put this out there, and you can take it for what it's worth. If that friend were really a friend, he wouldn't have threatened you about money (especially if you didn't owe him anything), nor would he have allowed someone else to threaten you. Not to mention, if your friendship or relationship was that strong to begin with, your "friend" would not have been upset with you for not joining at that level (if he were a true friend, he probably would have been happy that you helped him out at all). Actually, it would have been more beneficial for him if you'd joined at the mid level because he would have been able to keep your entire sale for himself instead of passing it up to someone else. My fiancee was into internet marketing long before I was, and at that time we were just boyfriend and girlfriend. I didn't join into many of the things that he was involved with (like Prepaid Legal or Tahitian Noni International), but he never got upset with me. Why? Because we had a true, meaningful relationship. Money isn't something we would have allowed to come between us because we cared too much about what we had. I'll tell you something. If he had ever gotten mad at me for not joining his businesses, our relationship would have been cut short, because no business or amount of money in the world should be more important that our relationship. If your friend thought as highly of your relationship as you do, he wouldn't have let a business come between you. I'm going to say this again, because it's the most truthful comment that can be made to what you've described: Unless you're held at gunpoint, NO ONE can force you to do ANYTHING! That is of course, unless you allow them to. You said yourself that joining the way you did was childish. If that's the case, then you cannot blame EDC for your childishness.

I understand that you advertised for 18 hours every day for months. I'm not taking that away from you. But after 2 weeks of no results, I probably would have changed up the ways or places I was advertising if I had been in your shoes. I, and several folks that I know, usually work only a few hours out of the day every day. Maybe 4 or 5 hours at the most sometimes. And I get responses from interested individuals every day. I welcome new team members every other day or so. Perhaps it's not how much you were advertising, but how and where you were advertising. That can often have a huge effect on how well your business does. Even if I didn't have a marketing background to help me, I have learned so much from our EDC training. Just the advice we've been given on where to market has helped me a LOT. And some things are trial and error. But you'd better believe that if I spend money to try something out, give it a fair amount of time and it doesn't work, that I'm not going that route again! Why? Because I'd just be spinning my wheels. And the last thing is that it doesn't seem as if you've ever really believed in any of the products (after all, they weren't a part of your decision to join, just the promise of money). If you don't even believe in what you're selling, you can't expect others to believe in your products enough to purchase them from you. Why do you think companies place such lofty guarantees on their products? Because they believe in what their products can do (or at least if they don't, they're making it look as if they do). When the seller has faith in the product, they buyer has faith in both the product and the seller. When that faith in the product is missing, you get no business.

I cannot speak for every single member out here, but EDC has given us a change for the better. Our lifestyle is even changing (we just got a new place, and went out to get some new things to furnish it. We ended up spending more than $550 just at one place, and for the first time in both our lives, we didn't feel like we'd later regret spending that amount of money). We are both starting to experience true financial freedom, something a "real job" doesn't offer. And I don't just spout how successful I am because I'm eager to get someone interested. I have proof of my earnings, and as I've said here before, I'm happy to share that proof with any interested individuals. I also have team members you can talk to if you want an objective opinion of my record as a sponsor and the training and services I provide to my team. Feel free to PM me if you're interested in this proof; I have nothing to hide.

Still, I'm sorry that you haven't been able to earn with the program. I know what it's like not to get the results you want from something. I went through many other programs before finding one that actually worked for me. And even in those situations, I don't blame the companies. I simply feel that at those times, I was not yet ready to run a business and mentor others. The fact that you haven't earned with EDC doesn't make it a scam or a fraud. Try to take some lessons from the experience. Perhaps, later on down the line, you'll find another business and remember what you did with EDC, and do much better with the next one. Any business out here is a "results not typical" business, not just EDC. There is no guarantee with anything in this life, business or otherwise. But you have to make the most of what you have when you have it. Some folks are better at that than others. There are folks earning a living with EDC, and there are folks who are finding value in its products everyday. If there weren't, the business would have fallen on its face by now, but instead it's thriving, operating great ventures with other well-known and established companies, and moving forward. Perhaps it's not that EDC is a scam, but that it just isn't for you.

Before you make such strong accusations, and try to tear down the leaders of the company with such harsh words (and be careful, you can get sued for slander, you know), take a good long look at yourself. You can tell me and any others what you want. But at the end of the day, you know deep down that no one forced you to make the decisions you made (your life, the lives of your family, or your belongings weren't on the line). And you know too, that EDC isn't what ruined your friendship. There is something else going on there, and you need to face that fact that maybe your friend wasn't as much of a friend as you thought he was (or as you wanted him to be). True friends don't screw you over on purpose, true friends don't lie and cheat each other out of money of any amount, and true friends would never force you to do something that would hurt you, emotionally, financially or otherwise. I don't know about any others of you, but none of the people that I call my true friends would ever have done that to me.

-PA27

You know Michael, I think you're absolutely right! Things are worth much more when you work for them. The things that are built from your hands, from your blood, sweat and tears, are worth so much more than anything that can be bought.

I don't want to be like the folks who are in this just to get rich. Lets say you achieve that goal. Ok, then what? Are you going to take over the whole world next? Ok, then what.....You know, I don't need to become a "millionaire" from EDC or any other opportunity. What I want is a better life for myself, my fiancee, our families and our future children. That is priceless. And EDC just happens to be my vehicle to get there. I now have a freedom that we all should have from birth, but that is stripped away from us by a society that is ruled by "big business." I have the freedom to dictate how the story of my life will play out. That is huge, when I think of where we were just months ago....

I went in today to visit one of my old jobs. I wasn't the most important person there by far, but I was important enough (a good, devoted worker and the one that handled the customer relations for the store). The first thing I noticed is that there are only 3 folks left from the original crew who opened the store 3 years ago (and they are at their wits' end). The next thing is that they are struggling, big time. The level of service we used to uphold is gone completely. The workers they have don't care about their jobs or their customers because the company doesn't care about them. But here is the amazing thing. In a five minute conversation with the new manager (that I'd never even met before today), I was offered the "promotion" of management that I couldn't get after years of going by the book and working for it. And it was nice to say that I'm working from home and loving it, instead of being so desperate for a job or a higher wage that I jumped at the opportunity. And instead of gloating, I offered them help (on my terms of course, no more slave hours). Heck, I have free time to spare. No sense in being selfish.

Freedom of any type is something that so many people take for granted. EDC has provided me with something I never would have seen if I'd continued on the path I was going in the working world. I feel very fortunate and very blessed to be a part of this company. And even more so, because I don't have to step on others or compete to get where I want to go. I can actually help others along the way. It's a nice feeling, one I cherish. What we have now is worth more than all the millionaires and six-figure incomes in the world!

-PA27

Sorry my mistake It's Gregory Moore. I talked to Peter Moore, that name is correct. Do you know of them? Supposedly there up there in the big money makers?

Second about the ebay thing, others have them up for a bigger price of 10$. Nobody buys them. I looked at the past history. Nothing is selling. Do you have any tips for me?

I'm pretty caring person and love to help out people. That's why I said I'll try the 297$ level. Then I got the whole talk of "you wont get rich joining at that level". Yes I guess you're right he isn't a true friend. I've yelled at him at that. I asked him if he just used me for the money and he hanged up on me. I think he's embarrassed because he was expecting it to bring in alot of money. Now it hasn't. He's typical male of "men are right, women aren't."
I know you said it is my own fault for my own actions. But peer pressure does come into play. I was going through a weak time with my family at that point and was easily drawled in. Does that account for anything? I think it does. People weak will do stuff they normally wouldn't have done.

Some of the advertising was daily safelifts, email blasters and i rolled in the ebay advertising. Also he did some flyers around town and blasted on google ads.

My details were not light, as to my tenor. I was actually polite as to how I stated it.



As close to quote as possible


{ring ring} Craig: "Hello Craig Garcia"

Lance: (suprised) "Craig, My name is Lance and I am an EDC gold member"

Craig interupts: (indignent) "Your calling me at 8:19 at night! are you stupid!!

Lance: (caught off gaurd) No I am not stupid!

Craig: Your calling this late to discuss EDC, You sound pretty Stupid to me!

Lance: (indignent) well I have left three MSG's and haven't gotten a return call yet about the Dubbs marketing site!

Craig: Oh come on I have a billing dept. that handles this during the day. You are just STUPID, Really STUPID!! Don't ever call this line again after hours!

Lance: What!

Craig hung up during my "What!"



The sad thing about that whole conversation is that I had no problem With EDC, I had purchased the lifetime EDC Web-Site, and just wanted to cancel the dubbs site for awhile because I wanted to save up some money for Advertising.

I agree that Wendy is listed in the back Office, But there really is no mention of Dubbs Site billing questions: it is not at all "blatenly obvious". On that point, I was just hoping that Craig could tell me who to call over at the dubbs site. I didn't think it was handled by EDC.


I am not taking a shot at you either, but it would seem that you are borderline suggesting that I was to "stupid" to know to call Wendy.

Please understand that there is no Harsh tenor here either, your use of the word baltent just seem to imply: all but me could see that. With that said, even if I am not up to par mentally I should be treated atleast with respect.

The fact is, I had called and left msg with Wendy, but she hadn't returned my phone call by that point.

I want to be clear here, Wendy is a very nice Lady and she was very polite when we did speak. I have nothing bad to say about her. I am sure she has quite a bit on her plate and I was lost in the shuffle.

If you read both of my post, I feel I was quite fair in my statements about EDC. If you noticed, I did support what Dubbs said about People having to put in effort and I never spoke ill of the EDC opp. Nor have I run down any member of EDC, or state that it was mis-represented to me. I just stated my case.

So why is it so hard to believe that Craigs tempement ,when I called, was less than proffesional.

If Craig was just having a bad night or day he took it out on me. If this was a one time event (great), a simple "I'm sorry" would suffice!

But it is true, regaurdless of your skeptisism, and I hope that my feelings of him are better after our next conversation.

Your advertising methods weren't horrible, although I don't recommend email blasters, flyers or safelists. As I said, it could also have been the way you advertised (the ad copy and language you used, etc.).

As always, I'm glad to offer help or answer questions. Feel free to contact me (you can PM me or send me an email via the system here). I'll be glad to share some tips and advice.

If nothing else, you ought to really give EDC a try, considering you're already in it. There are lots of us willing to offer help to other members. You can also find a great amount of help and advice in the weekly training classes. I can send you the schedule for those as well if you need it. I suggest you attend some of the classes (after all, you are paying for them), get some advice from some folks who are doing well, and give it one more chance. Who knows, you may be ready this time around, and you may surprise yourself!

-PA27